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Podcasting Goes Mainstream. How Can Authors Benefit? Lessons Learned From Podcast Movement 2019

August 28, 2019 by Joanna Penn 15 Comments

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Audiobooks are the fastest-growing segment in publishing — and podcasts sell audiobooks because you’re reaching people who are already listening. Those who consume media in audio (like me) want everything in this format, and whether it’s conversational interviews, industry news, serial fiction, or a full-cast, multi-voice production, podcasts are on the rise.

In this episode, I’ll explain some of my lessons learned from Podcast Movement 2019 and how it could impact you in terms of creation, marketing and revenue possibilities. Plus, some thoughts on the mindset of a creative entrepreneur, so even if you’re not interested in podcasting yourself, this will be useful.

2019 marked a tipping point with over $1 billion pouring into the industry and the rise of ever more creative podcast networks. Edison Research reported that, among the U.S. population ages 12 and older, the total number of people who have ever listened to a podcast passed 50% for the first time.

“This is a watershed moment for podcasting–a true milestone. With over half of Americans 12+ saying that they have ever listened to a podcast, the medium has firmly crossed into the mainstream.” Tom Webster, Senior Vice President at Edison Research. 

I’ve been podcasting since March 2009 and I’ve never been to a podcast conference before Podcast Movement in August 2019.

Similar to my decision to self-publish before the Kindle, podcasting is something I decided to do way before there were courses and easy-to-use software and even before 4G and smartphones made it worthwhile, so it was strange to find myself amongst thousands of attendees and an industry that has really only just started growing significantly. I have pages of notes for ways I’ll be improving my podcasts — yes, I have two now, which is inevitable if you love audio! — but how can you, as an author, take advantage of podcasting going mainstream?

(1) Attending live events will grow your knowledge and income

This is broader than Podcast Movement but it’s worth stating up front because I need to remind myself of this every time I travel for work.

I’m an introvert. As I write this, I’m utterly exhausted from too many people and too much noise, as well as bloated from hotel food and jet lag. The travel experience was expensive and tiring, and Orlando airport was one of the worst experiences I have had traveling to the USA. I’ve even had to cancel my business credit card because of fraud alerts. On every practical level, it was a terrible trip.

But I’ll be heading to another conference in just a few months, and I will keep going to live events and conferences — yes, even in the USA! — because it’s time away to focus working ON the business, not just IN the business. Without that time to reflect, it’s too easy for everything to become ‘busy work.’ Another book written, another launch, another ad campaign, another social media push, another podcast interview, more and more emails …

You have to get off the wheel sometimes or it will spin you into crazy.

I revisit my business and personal goals every time I travel, especially when I’m alone. I have time to reflect on what’s working, what I need to change, what still makes me excited and what I really have to stop doing before I run away screaming. I always learn from conference sessions and I write a lot of notes, plus this time I discovered some exciting new technology which immediately impacts my business. I meet new people and connect with those I know from years ago.

Selfietastic at Podcast Movement. With Jeff & Will from Big Gay Fiction, Lou Blaser from Second Breaks, Jeremy Bassetti from All Over the Place, and Fei from Fei's World

Podcast Movement has re-ignited my enthusiasm for audio, which was already high 🙂 As my friend Orna Ross tells me, the moment I start to get bored of something is the moment it starts to be recognized by others as important. So I need to double down on podcasting and not let it slide because I feel like I’ve been doing it for so long. I just need to shake it up a bit so expect some changes, all good ones, and more audio, not less.

So get out of your comfort zone, go work on your business, not just in your business.

What events could you attend in person? I know not everyone can afford to travel internationally for conferences, but what local events could you go to that give you a similar experience, even if it’s outside the author niche? In fact, getting out of the author niche is fantastic as you will learn from different industries! 

(2) Voice connects and builds trust. Is there a voice like yours out there?

Fake news. Ad overwhelm. We live in a world where trust is scarce — but also in a world where people crave connection.

We all want to belong, that’s why being indie has become far more than just a method of publishing.

Creatives, we are a tribe.

I loved the tribes that were represented at Podcast Movement. Yes, there were radio execs and greybeards and tech people and ‘veteran’ podcasters like me, but overwhelmingly, it was Millennial and diverse.

I attended a women’s networking event packed full of fascinating people with interesting shows in every niche. From NASA to foraging, dating advice to aviation, investing to government contracts, political shows about race to spiritual conversations. There was a society and culture track that had lively sessions for the LGBTQ community and there were meetups for podcasters of color. I met creators from the Colored Girl Beautiful show as well as the Latter Day Lesbians, and there were pronoun badges so you could indicate your preferences. Whatever you think of using different pronouns (she/her, he/him, they/them) it was a mark of respect for other groups which was refreshing.

Podcasting is tribal because it’s so personal.

A lot of this overlaps with Marketing Rebellion by Mark W Schaefer, which I read while I was at the conference. He talks about the rise of ad blockers and the lack of trust in brands trying too hard in a world where we all have a very good radar for advertising and ignore most of it. Millennials, in particular, care more about the people behind things, and they are more likely to buy artisanal and local. They want an emotional attachment to the people behind the products. In the end, we buy from those we know, like, and trust.

“We’re moving inexorably toward a subscription-driven, human-driven, emotion-driven, ad-free, funnel-free, big brand loyalty-free world.” Mark W Schaefer, Marketing RebellionClick To Tweet

I learned the concept of ‘know, like, trust’ in marketing at the beginning of my journey from people like Seth Godin, Brian Clark at Copyblogger, Yaro Starak, Chris Brogan (my 2009 article on Trust Agents here) and other marketers who focus on relationship and personal authenticity before sales. That’s where social media started, believe it or not, but now it’s overrun with paid ads which of course, I use to sell books like many authors.

But my core is still content marketing and if you listen to my interview with Pamela Wilson on content marketing in episode 443, I go into that in more detail.

I have tried to expand my use of paid ads in recent months, as discussed in episode 442 with Michael Beverley and Russell Blake on Amazon Advertising, but at heart, it’s not what I love, and so I’m scaling that back again. I will continue to use ads but only as a very small part of what I do. I’m doubling down on what I’m good at — and what is useful to you — and that’s writing and podcasting, which I see as part of my body of creative work, as well as a core pillar of my business.

This is what I wrote in my journal after reading Marketing Rebellion: Be more human. Be more helpful. Give more. Serve my audience. Don’t follow the latest trend. Double down on being human. You are not a big brand. Flawed is ok.

Double down on being human. You are not a big brand. Flawed is ok.Click To Tweet

So, here’s my challenge for you. I’m already doing this. I’m already sharing honestly with you guys every week and getting personal about another side of my life on Books and Travel. But what about you?

You’re listening to me because we have something in common, something in my voice and my experience resonates with you. But are there voices out there that reflect your reality?

Are you a white, middle class, Oxford-educated, happily child-free, Gen X, well-traveled, married, female English author who publishes indie? It’s unlikely we cross over on every spectrum, so who else is out there representing you? Or could you be that voice?

“Successful marketing in the future will have to be presented in a way that is unquestionably authentic, local, personalized, and even handcrafted. It will have to make a difference that people can see and experience.” Mark W Schaefer, Marketing Rebellion

(3) Podcasting is the new blogging. Why Google is now indexing podcasts for search.

Google announced on 8 August 2019 that they would be indexing podcast episodes (not just shows) and showing them on the first page of results in a similar way they do with videos right now. [Google Blog] This is currently in English only and in the US right now, but they have a global focus in both territory and language, so expect this to expand over the coming months. [More detail in this article from Pacific Content on Google podcast strategy]

Obviously, they didn’t go into too much detail on tech or everyone would be gaming it tomorrow, but they are reading the audio file, transcribing it in the background and then indexing that text in order to serve audio in search results.

Many people mentioned the potential issue of accents affecting transcripts (i.e. anything not US English) and they said, ‘do anything you can do to help us by adding notes and even a written transcript,’ so I’m pretty happy that I’ve already been transcribing for years. They won’t release the transcript they create but they did take the feedback that lots of people would like to help make it more accurate by uploading their own, a bit like you can on YouTube.

If you have a podcast — or you have been featured on a podcast episode — you don’t need to do anything to be indexed. It will just happen.

People do need to use the word ‘podcast’ in the search at the moment, but in a future roll-out, they won’t need to. Audio will be served alongside other search results like people don’t need to type ‘video’ when they want a how-to thing, they just get served video. The listing will be video, then audio, then text. That has got to demonstrate how people’s preference is skewing away from text search.

An example of a Google Podcast search. Photo credit from Google Blog

There was also a lot of talk in general about language, about how ‘podcast’ is not a word used by many who are new to listening. They suggested calling it a ‘show’ rather than a podcast so people don’t have to ask what it is. A showrunner can also be with an audio network, not just in TV.

So why is this happening? (and this is my opinion, of course!)

I’ve discussed the rise of voice assistants before, and it’s not just smart speakers, it’s using your voice to search on your smartphone. If you use voice search, you expect voice response. [More on voice technology for authors in this interview with Bradley Metrock, and also in this episode on voice search and smart speakers with Miral Sattar.]

Google has a revenue model based on ads for text-based search, but voice search is rising, so they are protecting their future revenue model.

My business has a revenue model based on text-based search as well — 95% of my income is based on organic search which I have built up for years on TheCreativePenn.com which now gets nearly 800,000 uniques per month — so I am following Google by also optimizing for voice search.

The word on the voice assistant front is that there will be a proliferation of assistants. “Google Assistant will win for search. Amazon Alexa will win for buying things from Amazon. Siri will win for delighting you with new experiences.” and the expectation is that you will use multiple voice assistants, not one master assistant. A bit like apps on your smartphone, you’ll use different assistants for different things. [Check out Bret Kinsella at voicebot.ai for more on this.]

So I will be focusing on optimizing my website for voice search as it brings people into my eco-system, and also looking at developing for Alexa in order to drive people to audiobooks, although that is a tiny part of my income compared to search which drives traffic, which drives affiliate income and sponsorship, as well as book sales and course sales from the site.

The same SEO rules apply around headlines (episode titles), keywords, and creating specific content that suits your market. They stressed ‘contextual’ audio a number of times, so think about what type of thing people listen to at different times.

They didn’t mention specific examples, but this has to be ad-based on some form e.g. they can tell you’ve been searching for a new car, maybe you have asked Google Assistant ‘what’s the safest family car?’ and there’s a podcast episode that covers that topic, so maybe they serve you that. Or maybe you’re searching for info about having a baby so they serve you new Mum or Dad shows. That’s just my thoughts but I heard ‘contextual’ a lot so clearly it’s important somehow. All these data points go into an algorithm, so no doubt, things will change over time as it matures.

I asked whether it will have something like Page Rank e.g. a trusted source — or a podcast that has been around for 10 years with lots of incoming links (!) — will do better than a brand new show. There was no definitive answer on that but it would make sense.

They are optimizing around discovery with the aim of doubling podcast listening worldwide by figuring out ways to introduce a first-time user to a podcast (or show). They want to be app independent, although they will have a player button in the episode so native listening can happen in the app.

If people use Google apps and Assistant, it will sync across devices so you can go from listening in the car, to listening on your smart speaker and it will resume where you left off. The Google Podcast app has Auto support, a Sleep timer and more. You can use the Listen on Google button on your website and it will play straight on an Android phone. The listener doesn’t need to have the app installed.

Click below to listen to The Creative Penn Podcast on Google Podcasts

What am I doing in response to this? I considered starting a Q&A podcast but I really can’t manage a third show and the idea is to bring people into my eco-system and this larger, more personal show, so just answering Q&A doesn’t do that, plus it’s my Patreon reward. But I will be doing shorter segments, in-between-isodes, once I sort out what content I want to make for that. So you can expect more audio to come 🙂

“More shorter-length sub-five-minute podcasts will be made — these work well on smart speakers, and respect listeners’ time. Expect not just news updates in this format, but others, too.” James Cridland, Podnews.netClick To Tweet

More on predictions for podcasting in this article from Pacific Content

I did talk to one of the Google developers about the possibility of integrating audiobook content because podcasts sell audiobooks, or even just linking through a creator name to other things they are in e.g. narrators and voice talent work on podcasts as well as audiobooks. They wrote that down but Play and Audiobooks are a different team so who knows whether that will funnel through. Fingers crossed.

Weirdly, there was no audiobook presence at all even though there was a dominant audio fiction track and a lot of writers and voice talent present. I asked veteran podcaster Evo Terra, who I first met online years ago when Podiobooks was a thing, and he said that “podcasting is like TV, and audiobooks are like film.” The two are very different mediums and the world is going crazy for TV right now. Podcast fiction is also taking off in some niches, and attracting raving fans and a lot of investment.

There were very few ‘authors’ present but a whole load of creators.

It was great to hear from Aaron Mahnke, creator of LORE, which started as a podcast and is still a top-ranking show, but also got a book deal and a TV show on Amazon Prime. He said, “I’m a creator. I create for a living,” but he creates first for the medium that people prefer.

Lore by Aaron Mahnke, available as a podcast, books and a TV show

You can touch more people with TV and audio right now than you can do with books, and as I have said before,  The Creative Penn Podcast has been downloaded over 3.2 million times in 215 countries which is far further than I have reached with my book sales.

Aaron said, “Everything is storytelling and everyone is a storyteller, whether you think you are or not. Find an idea that is perfect for audio. Create for that medium. Story is more important than tools.”

'Story is more important than tools.' @amahnkeClick To Tweet

Podcasting is essentially audio-first creation, which is fantastic, but I was still shocked that none of the audiobook companies were there. There was also nothing on how AI text-to-speech might explode the volume of audio created and make it a lot cheaper to create audio. It will likely put a lot of voice talent out of a job but increase the need for audio-first writers and audio editors. As ever, I know I’m early on calling this, but it is coming! [See episode 437 on how AI will disrupt publishing for more predictions.]

(4) The future is global and mobile

There were sessions on international podcasting, although those sessions weren’t well-attended because it was a US-conference. Here are some stats that make me happy to have a global focus:

  • 95% of the world’s population live outside of the USA
  • Apple iPhone might dominate in the USA, but mobile users outside of the US are predominantly Android. 78% of phones globally are Android but only 1% of podcast listens happen on Android now, so that’s where the growth will be. The player is installed on all phones and you don’t even need the player to play audio on Android.
  • Non-US podcast listeners also use Spotify and YouTube to listen and that also reflects in demographics. Younger people listen to podcasts where they also listen to music. [Pandora has also got into podcasts, but is US-specific]. Podcasts are just part of native audio content, not separate which explains YouTube consumption which is where a lot of people listen to music.

Global phone usage compared to USA. From James Cridland Podnews.net. Podcast Movement 2019

If you are outside the US and/or you speak another language, or if you are in an under-represented group, now is a great time to start podcasting.

The Spanish speaking market is growing fast and US podcast networks are starting to launch in multiple languages, for example, Dr. Death by Wondery was released in 7 languages at the same time. Hernan Lopez, CEO of Wondery, Argentinian but US-based, talked about using the model of TV to release globally simultaneously. People expect that now with Netflix. I wish the publishing industry would realize this. It is so annoying to hear about a book and not be able to buy it in the UK when it releases in the US. It also facilitates piracy because people will do anything to get the content they want to consume and if it's not available legally in their market, they will look to pirate it.

Remember, indie authors can release globally all at once, but only if they publish wide because Amazon is not available everywhere. [See episode 429 on exclusivity vs wide publishing for more details]

When asked in one session about the differences in global markets and how they decide what to make, founder of LosPodcasteros, Martina Castro said that there are no rules because it is a completely open market. It has not been done before in this medium so now’s the chance to make content in your niche and see if people want it.

“Make things that don’t exist and give people a chance to decide if they want it.” @martinacastroClick To Tweet

This is the independent creator model!

Don’t base your creation on what is trending or what people are buying. There is not enough evidence in podcasting yet to see trends anyway, but embrace the Millennial trend of micro-niches. The era of the bestseller is over. We now live in the long-tail.

Fun in Florida!

(5) Cool tech and marketing ideas

I have a ton of little notes about interesting things, so here are some of the main ones that might be useful for you.

Descript

I walked past this booth and did a double-take. I couldn’t believe it was real because it is a game-changer. You import a file, it generates a transcript and then you can edit the audio by editing the transcript. You can also use it to generate snippets based on text.

If you do anything with audio, your jaw will have dropped by now 🙂 If you’re not technical, this actually helps you edit without knowing too much. It’s also fantastically useful for audiobooks. So I’m playing with it and it will help me create more snippet based shows where I can add narrative around what others have said, which I am very keen to do.

Get 100 free minutes by using my link: www.TheCreativePenn.com/descript

Cleanfeed

I’ve been using Skype since 2009. I’ve tried Zoom and Zencastr but had trouble with both at various times. Cleanfeed is used by the BBC and essentially cleans up the audio files to make them better across the internet. I’m going to try it out based on a conversation at their booth and this great tip: “It’s 2019 and people are still trying to record interviews with Skype. Look into better options.”

Marketing tips that are also applicable for books

The Traffic Pattern t-shirt modeled by host Derek Vento and Kevin

  • T-shirts. Lots of people had t-shirts with their podcast URL and logo on. This works well in an Instagram world where people take selfies with others and share the images. Authors tend to use book covers which don't work so well on t-shirts, so consider using your brand or author name URL instead
  • Authentically share snippets from the show e.g. quote images, short, accessible, with consistent branding on IG with link in show notes. Don’t do this for every show. Just pick the top shows and do it with them.
  • In real life (IRL) engagement. Connect with people at events and drive them to your podcast. Latter Day Lesbians mentioned they go to Pride events and have a stall for their podcast and have seen growth that way.
  • Use business cards with QR codes on that take people to your podcast (or book) landing page — but be aware that many people are on different devices and shop in different places, so don’t just do it to your Apple Podcast or your Amazon US book page

So will I go back to Podcast Movement in 2020?

I won’t be attending next year because at core, it’s not my tribe. I am an author first, podcaster second, but I will likely buy the Virtual Ticket so I can listen to the sessions.

I’ll be making some changes to the podcast both on the front end, so you get more audio, but also in the back end with technical settings etc that you won’t even notice in order to be found further afield. I’ll be refocusing on SEO for audio to make the most of the Google changes and also changing up my Patreon offering. If you are a Patron, you’ll hear about that first.

If you’re thinking about starting a podcast, there are lots of options these days. Similar to self-publishing, the tools and services are exploding and some are great, others are not so great. So do your homework before jumping in. I share how I make mine at TheCreativePenn.com/howtopodcast and I’m currently working on a course on podcasting, audiobooks and voice technology for authors which will be coming out in the next few months. It’s turning into more than I expected, considering this is a growing area.

Thanks for listening and I hope you found it sparked some ideas whether or not you podcast yourself, or are considering pitching podcasts for interviews.

If you’ve found this episode or any of my other episodes useful or inspiring, there are a couple of things you could do right now:

  • Tell a friend or two, or an author group you belong to, about the show. It should be available on whatever app they use for music.
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  • Leave a review on whatever service you listen to
  • Support the show on Patreon.com/thecreativepenn and get the backlist Q&A audio with behind the scenes info and ask me anything extra shows. 

Happy creating — whether that's writing or podcasting — and I'll see you next time!

Feel free to leave questions or comments below and join the conversation.

10 Years Of The Creative Penn Podcast. 3.2 Million Downloads In 215 Countries

March 18, 2019 by Joanna Penn 31 Comments

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Today marks the 10th anniversary of The Creative Penn Podcast. The first episode went live on 15 March 2009 and there are now 422 episodes with over 3.2 million downloads across 215 countries. In today's show, I reflect on the development of the podcast and my own creative journey. 

The Creative Penn Podcast 10 years widePodcasting is such a big industry now that there are lots of courses on how to do it and lists of best practices and how to launch and a lot of detail that can seem overwhelming. A bit like writing a book really!

But like writing a book, or self-publishing, you can learn as you go, adding to your process over time and outsourcing as you start making income.

Also like writing a book, many people will start the journey but very few will continue for the long-term.

I recorded the first episode in the spare room of my house in Ipswich, Queensland, Australia. I phoned my interviewee, Rachael Bermingham, on a landline, put it on speakerphone and held my MP3 recorder next to the phone to record it. Rachel was the co-author of 5 Ingredients, one of the first breakout self-published books in Australia. She was all over the news so she was basically famous and I didn’t have a clue what I was doing but I did it anyway.

I’m so glad I took that first step because my podcast is one of the best things I’ve created in my life. It is an important part of my creative body of work.

supportonpatreonToday's show is sponsored by all the wonderful listeners who support the show on Patreon. Thank you! Your support makes it clear that you enjoy the show, find it useful, and want it to continue. You can support the podcast for just a few dollars per month and receive the extra Q&A audio per month, plus the audio backlist. Just go to www.Patreon.com/thecreativepenn

What have I discovered in 10 years of The Creative Penn podcast?

In this article, I’ll take you through a journey of the development of the show and share tips along the way, and then talk about my next 10-year slow pivot. The tips are relevant for anyone who wants a long-term creative business, not just specifically if you want to podcast because the principles are essentially the same. I hope you find some interesting ideas for your own author business!

March 2009 – First episode. I started by doing everything myself!

I started podcasting in 2009 as a way to build my author platform. I was still in my job as a business consultant and I wanted professional speaking work as well as a way to sell my non-fiction books and courses. I was determined to build multiple streams of income so that I could leave my job and become a full-time author-entrepreneur. I knew I needed more than books to make a decent income (and I still believe that’s true for most authors).

Joanna Penn 2009

With some of my early books in 2009 (no longer available in those editions!)

I self-published my first book, How to Enjoy Your Job, in 2008 (later rewritten as Career Change) but I had only sold around 100 copies even though I’d made it onto national TV and radio, so I decided to put all my energy into online marketing which looked to have better results.

My mentor, Yaro Starak, had a podcast and it was one of the main ways I learned about entrepreneurship. Yaro has been on the show several times, most recently in episode 406 to talk about long-term success and he continues to be a great model of sustainable online business and living a happy life. [Check out his Blog Profits Blueprint here.]

I listened to a lot of audio from bloggers in the US at the time and realised that it was a fantastic way to reach people with a message and I also bought products from people I listened to, so I knew it worked as a marketing funnel. There were very few authors producing podcasts (and it’s still rare) so I thought it might be a way to differentiate myself and build an audience over time.

I wanted to learn and share my journey, as well as help other people. I also wanted to connect with other authors.

I was deeply lonely in my little town west of Brisbane, Australia. It was a cultural wilderness and I wanted to meet other creative entrepreneurs. Interviewing them seemed like a good way to connect, especially as many of them lived in the USA.

TIP: Only start a podcast if you are doing it for more than the money. It has to be intrinsically rewarding first before you ever make a dollar from it.

Podcasting takes time to grow.

For about six months, it was like howling into the wind. No traffic, no listeners, no nothing. This was back when self-publishing was still a dirty word, but as the Kindle took off, things began to change, at least in the USA and the podcast began to gain traction. I started to get listeners and I started to connect with people. I even made some (online) friends!

Technically, I did everything myself.

Learning by doing is one of the most important principles for the independent creative entrepreneur. Stop talking about it and get on with it 🙂

I still think this is important. In fact, I have a note pinned by my desk based on Steven Pressfield’s books, Turning Pro and Do The Work.

“When we turn pro, everything becomes simple. Quit the monkey mind. Do the work.”Click To Tweet

Sept 2011 – I left my job to be a full-time author-entrepreneur

I was able to leave my job because I made an income at that point from multiple streams of income. I’ve been through this in my books, How to Make a Living with your Writing, and Business for Authors, in more detail, but basically, I was bringing in money from book sales, speaking, consulting, course sales, and affiliate income. Marketing my business and services was all based on content marketing, so people found me through the blog and the podcast.

TIP: Podcasting is a form of indirect marketing.

Joanna Penn making videos

Making videos at the British Museum, London – just part of the job!

You can give calls to action with specific links which you can also include in your show notes, but podcasting is really more of a brand-building exercise over time.

People can’t click on a link as they might do with ads or a blog post because they are listening at the gym or driving or while they’re doing other things, but they might go looking for you later if they connect with your message.

I can’t point to a specific percentage of my income that has come from the podcast, but over the years I’d say that it’s responsible for the lion’s share of my creative business because it has led to so many opportunities and has enabled me to reach an audience directly — without advertising.

This is another reason I’m so passionate about content marketing, especially at a time when authors are obsessed with paid ads. I’ve never paid to advertise my website or podcast. It’s grown organically over time through search engine traffic, social media shares and word of mouth.

It’s creative, sustainable, long-term marketing which suits my personality much better than focusing on paid ads.

content marketing for fiction[If you’re interested in specifics around content marketing for fiction, check out my mini-course, Content Marketing for Fiction.]

Jan 2013 – I started doing an introduction ahead of the interview

After four years of interview-only podcasting, a listener emailed me and suggested that I talk about what I found interesting in an intro before the show.

I didn’t think anyone would be interested, but it turns out that many of you tune in for the intros and not always for the interviews 🙂

So, I’ve expanded it over the years to include more segments — news, futurist things, my personal update and anything useful like webinars, and I’ve realised how powerful it is to be able to communicate so personally. I try to share openly about my creative journey and sometimes it’s these little snippets that seem to connect the most.

Voice is powerful for connection. People do business with people they know, like and trust.Click To Tweet

Always make sure you’re connecting with your audience in some way. It’s important that people get to know YOU, not just your guests. This is how you build up a trusted brand over time and foster a real connection with your listeners.

June 2013 – I started doing transcripts for search engine optimization

Joanna Penn Guardian Masterclass

I was teaching Guardian Masterclasses on self-publishing in London by 2013

Up until this point, I made detailed show notes myself during the audio editing process but it was more of a round-up, not a transcript.

If you want organic traffic for a podcast, you need transcripts for SEO (search engine optimization)  purposes because audio is not (yet) searchable.

This costs around $1 per minute, so a 45 min show is $45. I use www.speechpad.com but there are many other services. You still have to edit and format the transcript for your website, which I did myself initially and then my VA, Alexandra, eventually took over that job. That kind of help might add another $20-$40 per show, depending on how long your interview is. There are also services that will do everything for you, including all the audio tech, but they cost a lot more.

I’m glad to have transcripts for accessibility purposes, and because many people prefer to skim the text rather than listen, but I do it for the traffic. That means transcripts are not for everyone. It’s got to be worth the investment.

TIP: You need to be a business powered by a website to make effective use of transcription.

Words on web pages bring people to your site through search traffic, but what do they do when they get there?

blueprintI have books and courses you can buy, my free Author Blueprint and tutorials that lead to affiliate income, as well as an email list you can sign up for that has more products within. I turn traffic into revenue every day.

Most podcasts don’t have an associated business model, so they fail to capture the benefit of transcripts and therefore most don’t do them anyway, which also means they don’t get enough traffic to justify paying for them. It’s a chicken and egg situation.

Podcasting is content marketing.

I get organic traffic of over 700,000 uniques per month and many thousands of the words on this site are generated from podcast transcripts. They produce long-tail traffic and may even be more effective in an age of voice-first search because the language is natural and spoken, rather than written.

[More on content marketing in How to Market a Book, and also my Content Marketing for Fiction mini-course.]

Feb 2014 – I decided to give up the podcast

Joanna Penn Bella Andre High Howey 2014

With indie superstars Bella Andre and Hugh Howey, London, 2014

Yes, I really did think I was going to give it up!

By this point, the podcast was taking a LOT of my time. Since I was still doing everything myself, each podcast took around 5 hours each week.

The downloads had begun to creep up which meant more people were listening, but it also meant the show was costing me more money. I use Amazon S3 hosting which is cheap and scalable, but the costs go up as downloads increase and I was paying over $100 per month on hosting, on top of $60 per week on transcription. If you factor in my time, the podcast was getting pretty expensive.

Was it really worth it?

I was still getting the benefits I’d aimed for — connection with other authors, learning new things, brand-building and indirect sales, but at that point, I was not earning a big income from my author business. I had not hit six figures and I wanted to, so something had to give.

It was you guys, my listeners, who convinced me to continue — and who still keep me coming back every week. So many people told me that the podcast was useful that I decided to monetise it. I would double down, instead of giving it up.

How to Make a Living from your Writing 3DTIP: If something isn’t working, why isn’t it working?

Do you hate the topic, or have you run out of ideas, or does no one care?

OR/ do you have an audience but you just need to figure out how to make it pay?

What is your business model?

[For more on this, see How to Make a Living with your Writing and Business for Authors: How to be an Author Entrepreneur.]

May 2014 – The first corporate sponsor, Kobo Writing Life, joined the show

Thanks to Mark Lefebvre who believed that supporting the podcast was worth it, and to Chrissy Munroe for continuing to support the show even though it is a lot more expensive now as there are so many more downloads every week 🙂 

kobo writing lifeOver the years, I’ve welcomed new sponsors, all companies who I work with for my own books and can therefore personally recommend. I’ve turned down a lot of offers from companies I don’t work with as it’s important to me that I only promote useful things.

Thanks to all the sponsors: Kobo Writing Life, Draft2Digital, IngramSpark, and PublishDrive.

TIP: If you want a sponsor, foster relationships with companies who want to speak to your specific audience.

Don’t pitch too soon. Wait until you have a decent audience so you can put together download figures.

Only work with companies you can authentically recommend. Your reputation will always be the most important thing for a long-term business.

August 2014 – I started using Patreon

patreonI felt terrible about asking for patrons at first because the podcast had been free for so long. But a few things changed my mind.

I read The Art of Asking by Amanda Palmer (I’m one of her patrons now!) which is a great book that essentially says that people want to help the creators they love, so just ask. I also had a discussion with Jim Kukral about his book, Go Direct, (episode 191)  where we discussed artistic patronage and how creatives have always been supported by people who love their work. So I started asking.

In Sept 2014, I made $15.88 from patrons. In Jan 2016, it ticked over $100 a month, so it was definitely slow growth. Now it’s over $2000 a month, so you guys make the podcast financially viable alongside the corporate sponsors.

Joanna Penn Mark Lefebvre Kobo 2014

With Mark Lefebvre at Kobo HQ in Toronto, July 2014

Basically, I will not stop doing The Creative Penn Podcast because I have people who demonstrate practically that it is worthwhile and it is an increasingly important part of my income.

A huge thank you to all of you who sponsor the show on Patreon. There are 644 patrons right now and of course, the number goes up and down every month as people join and leave. It means an incredible amount because you can obviously listen to the show for free, but it’s evidence that you enjoy the show and want it to continue. You also get the extra monthly Q&A audios as well.

If you'd like to sponsor the show, go to: www.Patreon.com/thecreativepenn

TIP: If you want to use Patreon for your podcast or your art, it’s easiest if you have an audience already who you already deliver value to in some way and who want to support you.

Only a small percentage of your audience will join your Patreon. The Creative Penn Podcast gets 12,000 – 15,000 downloads per week, and with 644 patrons, that is less than 5%. That return will differ per niche, but it’s all a factor of numbers, so do you have a big enough audience to justify a Patreon setup?

Patreon is just one part of how the podcast makes income but it is directly measurable, as is the amount that comes from sponsorship. In 2018, my direct podcast income was 10% of my total business revenue, but there’s no way that is the only financial return.

Indirect sales are a huge part of the podcasting business model.

There’s no way of knowing how many of you have bought one of my books or courses, or clicked through one of my affiliate links, or signed up for my email list, or purchased something I’ve recommended because of this show. The frustrating thing is that you cannot ever pin down the financial value of a podcast. That makes it hard on sponsors as well, because it’s more about brand building than direct income but it’s also the pride and satisfaction of creating something new in the world every week that helps people.

August 2014 – Outsourced transcript formatting

My virtual assistant, the wonderful Alexandra Amor, works with me on a lot more than the podcast, but up until this point, I had done everything myself for the show. Plus, I was still writing fiction and non-fiction, as well as speaking, blogging and more.

To free up more time, I passed over the formatting of the transcripts to Alexandra and she created the first draft of the show notes with accompanying images made with www.canva.com .

Business for Authors 3DTIP: If you want to step up your income, and move from being an author to running a business as an author, you need to leverage your time.

That means hiring help.

Most of us work with professional book cover designers and professional editors, but if you want to take your business to the next level, you might need a virtual assistant, a bookkeeper, perhaps tech help, and even marketing help, if you can justify the outlay. If you’re podcasting, you might need transcription, formatting, or audio editing help.

For tips on outsourcing, check out this interview with Chris Ducker on how to work with personal assistants. I also cover outsourcing as part of my Productivity for Authors mini-course.

TIP: Create a content schedule so you can plan in advance. I didn’t really do this until I started working with Alexandra as my VA. When you outsource, you need to plan, which helps you organise content. We use a shared Google Sheet with months of interviews scheduled in advance.

June 2015 – Moved to a weekly show

Prior to this, the podcast was pretty much every two weeks or ad hoc as I recorded interviews and not necessarily published on the same day.

TIP: In order to make listening a habit, it’s best to release the show on the same day on a regular schedule e.g. weekly.

I only moved to weekly because The Self-Publishing Podcast (now The Story Studio Podcast) was catching me up in terms of number of episodes because they were weekly, and that annoyed me!

Joanna Penn Dubrovnik 2015

Book research in Dubrovnik, June 2015

But I discovered going weekly at a regular time dramatically impacted the number of subscribers and downloads. It was definitely a game-changer, but also mid-2015 was when podcasting started to take off so there may have been more listeners around in general.

The same is likely true of our books. I’ve never managed a regular production and release schedule but authors who publish on the same day, or send a newsletter on the same day, seem to have better engagement than those of us who are more ad hoc.

Oct 2015 – Outsourced video editing

My husband Jonathan left his job in Sept 2015 and started working with The Creative Penn. He took over the video editing for the podcast, adding the interviews to YouTube.com/thecreativepenn 

Interestingly, the YouTube listenership is a different audience to the audio feed and not one I engage with so much.

I have a lot of shorter videos on YouTube as well, but it’s not my favorite form of creation. I’m more a written word and audio person.

TIP: Only do a video podcast if you love the medium and consume video as part of your daily life.

I’ve been doing YouTube videos for over 10 years now, but I’ve never enjoyed the platform myself and will be phasing this out over time. The same goes for any platform e.g. I don’t use Facebook personally, but I do love Instagram so prefer to use that nowaways.

jfpennauthor instagram[I’m www.instagram.com/jfpennauthor if you want to follow my pictures!]

November 2016 – Outsourced audio editing and production

I was still spending time each week with audio production, but finally decided I’d better outsource that as well. I started working with Dan Van Werkhoven to do audio editing and processing for the podcast, which freed up even more of my time.

At this point, my work became the parts only I could do: finding and connecting with interviewees, researching and preparing questions, conducting the interview itself and then finalizing the interview blog post and also recording the introduction every week. This is a truly sustainable way to create for the long-term but there’s no way I could have afforded this at the beginning.

NARRATE YOUR own audiobook wideI also relish the skills I have developed around audio which help me with audiobook production as I move more into that arena. [Check out episode 418 on 7 Reasons to Narrate your own Audiobooks for more on this].

How the podcast works now

Since then, the podcast production has been a slick operation:

  • I plan the show 3-5 months in advance and schedule guests into the Content Schedule, a Google Doc shared between the whole team where we track the status
  • I interview the guest on video Skype and upload the audio to Speechpad for transcription
  • Jonathan edits the video and loads it to YouTube and uploads the edited audio to Dropbox for Dan
  • Alexandra receives the transcript and formats it into a blog post with appropriate images and links, saving as a draft in WordPress
  • I record the intro and load it into Dropbox
  • Dan edits the intro into the interview, formats the file and uploads to Auphonic to add the metadata, then Amazon S3 for the hosting and then adds the MP3 URL into the Blubrry plugin on the blog post
  • I edit the final version of the blog post, check the audio and schedule for the Monday morning slot
  • The show goes out on a Monday morning UK time and you download it on your device 🙂

Howtopodcast[More detail including technical equipment in my article, How to Podcast]

A huge thanks to Dan, Alexandra, and Jonathan for making the podcast production so streamlined and for making it easier for me to continue with the show.

TIP: Start by doing everything yourself and then outsource the parts that you want to as you begin to earn money.

As with publishing, there are companies who will do all this for you, but you will pay for it.

March 2019 – I’m still here!

Podcasts for authors have come and gone over the years, but I’m still here. In the same way that authors come and go in a niche, or give up writing altogether — and I have seen a lot of those in the last 10 years too — podcasts are mostly short-lived.

In fact, I have a rule now that I don’t do interviews with shows that have less than 30 episodes, because most don’t last. Harsh, but true. It’s the same in any creative industry.

TIP: Consistency over time is critical if you want to build a loyal audience, people who know you, like you and trust you enough to do business with you.

Consistency in creating over time is critical if you want to build a loyal audience.Click To Tweet

You have to love your topic.

You have to have so many ideas that you never tire of creating.

You have to want more than an income because podcasting is only about making money if you design a sustainable business model around it (in a similar way to an author business). You have to find the process intrinsically rewarding or you won’t be able to sustain it for the long-term.

My podcast reaches a larger market and helps more people than my books … and that’s OK 🙂

Humbleworks stand up desk topper

My podcast setup

The Creative Penn Podcast has now had over 3.2 million downloads across 215 countries.

I have not sold a million books yet and I have ‘only' sold books in 86 countries, which is still pretty awesome, but nowhere near 215.

In terms of demographics, the US makes up 60% of downloads, with UK, Australia, Canada, Germany and New Zealand coming in next — but there are also downloads from Japan and India, Korea, Brazil, Saudi Arabia, the Russian Federation, Israel and Iran among others. Creatives, we are a glorious United Nations of a show!

I used to want my books to be everything, but in this busy world many people prefer to listen, or read with their ears, than to read with their eyes.

You can sometimes change someone’s life more effectively through a podcast or an audiobook than through the written word and that’s OK. Getting your message or your story into someone’s brain is the point.

Words do not have to be written. They can be spoken.Click To Tweet

My podcast is an important part of my creative body of work, just as important as my books, perhaps even more so.

Many of you have told me that you find the show useful, or that some nugget of information or inspiration has helped you or made you money, or just made life easier. As someone who always wanted to be in the self-help industry, a British Tony Robbins, this makes me super happy 🙂

The podcast is also an asset that drives revenue for my business and I love doing it. So The Creative Penn Podcast is not going anywhere. I am committing to at least episode 500, so that’s two more years and then I’ll review again.

But it’s also not enough for me anymore.

Books and Travel Books and Travel: Announcing my next 10 years of podcasting

A lot has changed in the author community since March 2009, when the international Kindle had not yet launched and there was no such thing as KDP Select or Kobo or BookBub or ACX or Vellum or many more of the tools we take for granted now.

I’ve changed too and I’ve pretty much shared it all publicly on this site over the years.

I started writing my first novel in November 2009, I left my job in September 2011, I started making six figures in 2015 which is probably when I finally had the confidence to say that I would make it long-term as an author-entrepreneur.

Which brings me to now, March 2019.

When I think about my next 10 years, 2019 – 2029, I know that a lot more will change, but I also know that I still want to be an author and a podcaster.

These things are part of my creative DNA.

But I’m ready to share more of my J.F.Penn side, which I have talked about over the years but never doubled down on. I want to share the personal stories behind my fiction and also talk to authors about the places that inspire their work.

I want to use content marketing to bring people to my fiction and I have some non-fiction in mind for that brand, too. I want to build something new, a destination site for people like me.

Books and Travel PodcastIntroducing www.BooksAndTravel.page, my new website and podcast for people who love books and travel.

Escape, curiosity, inspiration. Unusual and fascinating places alongside the deeper aspects of travel.

There are four episodes available on the Books and Travel podcast as this goes out and it should be in your usual podcast app. Click here for the episode list and subscribe buttons.

I’ll be doing a mix of solo shows and interviews.

As this goes out, I have solo shows on Lake Malawi, Jerusalem and Bluewater Sailing: The 3 Trips That Shaped my Life, as well as Escape, Reinvention, Curiosity, Challenge: Why Travel?

I’m going to write a travel memoir in public over time and eventually, that will become a book. I’ll also be starting on the shadow book since so much of my darker side emerges when I travel.

It’s a very different side of me and even if you don’t read my fiction, you might find it interesting.

Incarnations-of-Jo-Frances-Penn

The many incarnations of Jo Frances Penn!

I’ll also be interviewing fiction and non-fiction authors about places they’ve traveled that inspire their writing and also on specific topics like walking, or grief and death travel and basically, anything that interests my J.F.Penn side.

I will NOT be talking about the craft of writing, publishing, book marketing or creative entrepreneurship on Books and Travel 🙂

I have interviews available right now with literary fiction writer Orna Ross on Ireland and historical thriller author David Penny on Granada and Cordoba in Spain. More interviews to come with fiction authors on the places that inspire their stories, as well as non-fiction authors on travel and related topics.

If you listen to the show and think you might be an appropriate interviewee, then please use the Contact form on the site, www.BooksAndTravel.page/contact

Books and Travel will be bi-weekly for now because of time constraints but I’ll see how it goes over time. I’d like to go weekly at some point. There is an email signup for a Monthly Reading List because everyone loves book recommendations!

If you want more behind the scenes information about why I’ve chosen to go this way for content marketing and tech setup details, check out my course on Content Marketing for Fiction as I go into much more detail there.

J.F.Penn-escape-reinvention-1024x254

From the early response from Patreon supporters and my Content Marketing course members, it is much more personal than The Creative Penn Podcast. If that piques your interest, I hope you’ll check it out and I’d really appreciate a review on your favorite podcast app, especially iTunes, as that helps with discovery.

OK, I hope you’ve found this useful and that it gives you some ideas for your own creative business. I’ll be back next week as usual with The Creative Penn Podcast and I hope you’ll also check out Jo Frances Penn on the Books and Travel Podcast!

Please do leave any comments or questions or thoughts below and join the conversation. I'd love to know what you think!

Book Marketing Tips: How To Grow Your Readership Through Podcasting

March 13, 2019 by Creative Guest 5 Comments

Our lives are becoming increasingly impacted by voice and audio technology, something I discuss frequently on The Creative Penn Podcast. Today, author and podcaster, Paul Sating shares why it's a good idea for authors to podcast, and how it can help with book sales.

Book Marketing Tips How To Grow Your Readership Through PodcastingIt’s difficult to get published but finding a reader base for your books can be even more challenging.

Maybe you’ve leveraged every tactic known to ‘writerhood’; newsletters, blogs, paid ads, and various writer-centric websites aimed at readership.

Even writing nonfiction books isn’t a guaranteed path to market awareness of your brand. The challenge of finding readers, standing out from the crowd, becomes more difficult as the crowd swells.

But what can a writer do? After all, there are only so many avenues available to us. The good news is, publishing is a long road, but it is a road with numerous branches that can help us reach our goal of finding new readers.

One way to create a unique presence is by sharing your voice with the world by starting your own podcast. Now, before you say you couldn’t possibly podcast, allow me to tell you how it’s not as difficult as it may first appear and why you might want to consider getting into this medium.

Reasons to Podcast

  1. Anyone can do it (yes, even you).
  2. It can expand your author/book brand exponentially.
  3. It’s relatively cheap (especially compared to book covers and editors).
Humbleworks stand up desk topper

Joanna Penn with her podcasting microphone

It requires determination to publish and now I’m asking you to be as determined in believing you can podcast. Many people think it’s too technical, but if you have a computer, Internet connection, and a recording device, you can podcast.

Lack of experience can easily be overcome and don’t worry about the sound of your voice (no one enjoys hearing their own).

The podcast space is an open and friendly space. Plenty of experienced podcasters are more than willing to provide advice and audiences know most of us are hobbyists. They are patient and supportive.

You don’t need the sheen of a highly-produced Hollywood product for thousands of people to enjoy listening to your show. With drive and dedication, your sound and production will consistently improve, a feature of this medium that is uniquely positive.

Fans actually celebrate the improvement over time of the shows they love. It’s a truly empowering experience.

No one expects you to sound like a professional studio and the podcast market is looking for genuine personalities to connect with. Make that be you.

Still not convinced?

Consider the flooded book market, with millions of titles and thousands added every month.

Standing out from the crowd is becoming increasingly difficult. Starting your own podcast creates exposure for your books like no other writer activity.

[Note from Joanna: I talk about this kind of voice branding in my podcast episode about narrating your own audiobooks.]

How Podcasting Can Increase Your Brand Exposure

Leading to a larger fan base, many of whom will read your books.

1. Intimacy

Podcasts are a dynamic medium that allows you to connect with fans (as a creator and as a person) on a deep level. When you podcast, you know you’re speaking to hundreds or even thousands of people, but they know you’re speaking directly to them.

That connection can be incredibly strong. Many fans identify as “friends” of their favorite podcasters, even if they’ve never met them.

2. Accessibility

iphone with earbudsWe’re busy people with busy lives. A considerable strength of audiobooks is that they’re mobile – friendly. People can listen wherever they are and whatever they’re doing.

Podcasts share that strength. People cannot stop to read your blog or your interview when they’re at the job or working out at the gym. But they can listen to your podcast while doing those things. You become ever-present in their daily lives and, over time, part of their routine—you can’t put a price on that.

Lastly, the explosion of reliable podcatchers (apps users listen to podcasts) allows for a permanent on-demand existence for your content.

3. Flexibility

A podcast platform gives you the ability to be responsive to fans by quickly publishing content that is relevant to them or the latest trends.

The very fluid nature of podcasting allows you to release episodes when they are timely and topical, dropping them into millions of devices around the world.

And you’re not ‘stuck’ in what you first create. The medium is structured for easy transitions between podcast categories (fiction, nonfiction, business, self-help, etc.).

What is your niche?

Even with an estimated 500,000 podcasts in the space, there is still room for you. Though those numbers sound intimidating, it pales in comparison to the number of book titles. The key is to identify a niche that works for you (your book publishing strategy/goals).

By identifying a niche market, you can carve out a following by leveraging social media and “Also Listens” (podcast equivalent to Amazon “Also Boughts”). The best part? You can do this organically (for free) over time.

How To Begin

And that brings me to my last point. Starting your own podcast can be done cheaply — you only need an Internet connection, computer, a DAW (digital audio workstation — more about this in a moment) and a mic (and you can always add equipment if you choose to take this more seriously in the future).

AT4040 MicrophoneMics aren’t scary and you don’t need to be a sound pro to find one that will suit your needs. In fact, great starter USB microphones (plugged directly into your computer’s USB drive) can be found for less than $100. A decent mic can last well over a decade (can you say the same for your book covers?).

[Note from Joanna: for more information on audio set-up for an author, check out this post from Dan Van Werkhoven, the ‘sound guy' for The Creative Penn Podcast.]

Great starter DAW software (like Audacity) is available for free. Though I upgraded to an Adobe product years ago, I know many successful podcasters who still use Audacity (or Garageband, the Apple equivalent).

The only other cost associated with podcasting (besides time) will be your hosting fees (which can range from free for to roughly $25/month, depending on your needs).

These costs are greatly outweighed by the exposure you’ll earn.

Don’t let fear of the unknown discourage you

There are plenty of resources available to help you get started. Many are free. YouTube is a wonderful place to find free educational resources for all skill levels. Just about any social media platform has a wealth of podcast communities with experienced podcasters were willing to help. You won’t be alone.

Audio is a growing marketplace. With our mobile lifestyle and content saturation, it’s important to not get left behind. For writers who want to obtain/maintain front-of-mind-awareness for readers, podcasting is the next natural step in this evolving marketplace.

If you’re looking to stand out, to grow and strengthen your relationship with your readers, build a unique brand presence, and have a consistent platform to cross-medium promote your books (for free), look no further.

You work hard on your books and they deserve to be in the hands of as many people as possible. Hosting your own podcast can not only be the most effective and cost-efficient way of marketing you and your books; it’s actually incredibly fun.

For many authors who podcast, it doesn’t even feel like marketing. Raising awareness, carving out a niche, building bridges to new readers, all while having fun?

What’s stopping you?

Have you thought about starting your own podcast? Please leave your thoughts below and join the conversation.

Paul SatingNovel Idea to Podcast Paul SatingPaul Sating has been podcasting for 9 years with over a million downloads and published his first 3 books in 2018. He writes horror, thrillers, and is currently working on an epic fantasy series.

Find his podcasts and books at paulsating.com. Connect on Twitter and Instagram at @paulsating.

Diversifying your Income as a Creator. Interview with Joanna Penn on Creative Funding

July 6, 2018 by Joanna Penn 1 Comment

If you want to be truly independent, you need multiple streams of income and these days there are far more options for authors than just selling ebooks on Amazon.

Diversify your income as a creatorIn this podcast interview on The Creative Funding Podcast, I discuss intellectual property rights, podcasting, Patreon, audiobooks, and more with host Thomas Umstattd Jr.

You can find the original show here if you want to listen: https://creativefunding.show/007/

You can also listen with the embedded link below:

 

Show Notes

  • On Joanna’s beginnings as a writer
  • The business of being an independent author
  • The importance and value of a book’s intellectual property rights
  • And the importance of multiple streams of income
  • Why start a podcast for writers?
  • How to monetize a podcast
  • How audio, in its many forms, helps an audience to know, like and trust us

You can find The Creative Funding Show here, and Thomas also co-hosts the fantastic Novel Marketing Podcast with James L. Rubart, which I have appeared on a number of times.

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How To Monetize A Creative Podcast With Joanna Penn On Podcraft

May 18, 2018 by Joanna Penn Leave a Comment

I started The Creative Penn Podcast in March 2009 as a way to meet other writers and learn about the world of publishing and book marketing.

Back then, I had no idea that it would become a source of income as well as a key part of my non-fiction book marketing strategy.

If you're interested in podcasting, you might find this interesting.

In this interview on Podcraft with Colin Gray, I talk about ways to monetize a podcast.

Click here to listen to the episode.

We discuss:

  • How I almost gave up the podcast in 2015
  • the creative penn podcastPatreon and how to use appropriate bonuses for your audience. Why building an audience before monetizing is so important.
  • How to get corporate sponsorship – and what you can expect if you're just starting out
  • Why detailed show notes and preferably a transcription are so important for Search Engine Optimization
  • How to use a podcast to advertise your audiobooks
  • How to record your own audiobooks for ACX, publish and distribute to Audible, Amazon, and iTunes
  • Why now is a great time to get into podcasting and audiobooks
  • How you can integrate affiliate income into podcasting

You can find over 370 episodes of The Creative Penn Podcast here. You can find The Podcast Host here and on twitter @thepodcasthost

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