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Our attitudes to money shape so much of our lives, and today I explore how we can integrate our creativity with our money in discussion with Orna Ross. If you're struggling with your financial journey, then you'll find this interview fascinating.
In the intro, I talk about my lessons learned after 3 years as a full time author-entrepreneur and what's changing for me right now.
This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors.
Kobo’s financial support pays for the hosting and transcription, and if you enjoy the show, you can now support my time on Patreon. Thank you!
Orna Ross is a poet, award-winning and bestselling literary fiction author and founder of the Alliance of Independent Authors, also voted one of the Top 100 most influential people in publishing last year. Orna also blogs and writes non-fiction books on creativity, and today we're talking about her latest book, Creating Money, Creating Meaning: Getting into financial flow.
There's a video on YouTube here.
- How Orna's Go Creative series explores creativism – exploring creativity with things we don't usually associate with that. This particular book started life over 10 years ago when Orna started to explore the idea of applying the creative process to making money – and it turned out to be fun!
- Why creative people have an issue with talking about money. How our backgrounds can shape our attitudes. Overworking, underearning, undercharging – do you recognize these issues? It's common amongst creatives and you can change.
- How you can start to change your attitude to money. Look at your behaviour and the way you talk about it. On welcoming money in, in a similar way to inviting the Muse in for our writing (as Stephen Pressfield talks about in ‘The War of Art.') Changing your thinking from conventional thinking, deconstructing thought patterns.
- How to deal with money discussions in your relationships. How differing money attitudes can co-exist in a relationship.
- The 7 stages of the creative process for the money journey, using me (Joanna) as an example! The importance of setting your Intention for your financial life, as well as your creative life. Incubation – let it settle and while you're thinking, move into Investigation – learning about how to get there and what you have to do to make it. If you're serious, you need to change your behavior, and learn new skills. You need to spend the time thinking about what you REALLY want. It takes time to make this shift.
- Drafting – if your financial goal is to become a full-time author, this part will be testing out what that really means. Maybe doing it on the side while you work your day job, as I did part-time for 3 years. Clarification, when you bed down what you are moving into. Amplification – consider what worked for you and what needs to be changed and let go of. You're now starting to understand who you really are, as well as your business model. What you will and won't do. Which opportunities will you take advantage of?
- Many of us repeat this process multiple times, and we learn along the way. It's a long term process! People also drop out during the process if they aren't on the right path. Life is a challenge – no one said it would be easy!
- Completion – you've done what you set out to do e.g. leaving the day job, or reaching a financial goal. There's an emotional moment, and then you start all over again the next stay, towards your next goal. That will change as you move through the journey. Finishing energy is really important, but often the original intention has morphed over time.
- On acceptance, enjoyment and enthusiasm. Why some people should keep the day job to make money, and only write for fun.
- Comparisonitis and envy around money – how to reframe it so that you can create that success within yourself.
- The practices of release and letting go: inspiration meditation, FREE writing and mind free movement, all of which are part of the exercises in the book.
- Why this book has been so hard for Orna, and her own money journey. On long-term thinking.
You can find Orna at OrnaRoss.com. You can buy Creating Money, Creating Meaning: Getting into financial flow here (on preorder until Sept 23, 2014). My own money story is included in the book, and I think this mindset shift around money is a perfect accompaniment to my book, Business for Authors: How to be an Author Entrepreneur.
Do you have any questions about money or mindset, or the creative process? Please do leave a comment below and Orna will try to address it.
Ben Murray says
Thank you for this Joanna and Orna. Too many writers and marketers get caught up in making money quickly and fall into a ‘copycat’ type syndrome where they ignore their own talents and try to emulate the books and products others create that are making money which ends up hurting them. When they focus on aligning themselves with their own gifts and creativity, then they create books (or products) of real value and then the money starts coming in.
Orna Ross says
I agree Ben, it’s a matter of balancing and valuing the two sides of the authorial coin! Some writers make the mistake you speak of; I see others who think of money as too dirty and grubby a topic to deal with. The middle way works best for most. Thanks so much for listening and commenting.
Debra Eve says
This couldn’t be more perfect timing for me. I downsized my life and my six figure IT job to a less stressful one doing word processing. It works perfectly for writing, but I’ve gotten too comfortable and I resent the time it takes away from creating.
I’m don’t care about millions. I would be happy to replace my current corporate income with that of an author-entrepreneur (and like Joanna, love the techie aspects). But there’s a small voice telling me that I need to sit out the next seven years until I can “retire” from corporate work. There’s no pot of gold at the end — pensions were abolished with the economic downturn. So what’s the point?
Thank you, Orna. I pre-ordered your book and can’t wait to delve into planning how I want my career and income as an author to unfold. And from one former IT professional to another, Joanna, thanks for being such an inspiration and role model!
Orna Ross says
Thanks so much for pre-ordering Debra. I hope the book will help your decision making process. As you say, it seems like this may be resistance rather than a real reason to delay diving in. Keep us posted!
Joanna Penn says
Hi Debra – I agree that there’s no point in waiting for pension money – but that’s a personal decision, and if you sit down with a professional, they may be able to help you with what that could be. I did it with my Mum – and it worked out OK for her to retire – not that she’s stopped, mind you!
Sherry Marshall says
Wow, money is such a big topic. Thank you for raising it as it is often not talked about publicy, or even privately for that matter! It is even more complex when we are engaged with writing that we feel passionate about. Working because we love what we are doing somehow means that it doesn’t matter if we make money or not. It does though. Money is certainly a ‘hot topic.’
Orna Ross says
So true Sherry, money seems to be as taboo for us as sex was for the Victorians! We who chose the creative way with money need to talk about it and encourage and support each other in this different way. Thanks for listening!
Henry Hyde says
A really interesting discussion – interesting enough to have made me pre-order the book, Orna!
Some extremely thought-provoking points were raised, including one made ‘in passing’ about having a job that involves writing whilst also striving to be a writer. I’m a magazine editor/designer and regularly crank out several thousand words on niche topics as part of my production schedule. Finding the time to write my first non-fiction book was agonising, but I finally managed it and it’s done well, but it really alerted me to the burn-out that you warned about. The unrelenting deadlines are even more challenging when it comes to writing fiction. But at the same time, I’m not in a position to ditch the day job yet to dedicate myself full time to the books…
I’m hoping that your book will give me some insights to tackle this dilemma and cut the Gordian knot!
Well done Joanna for hosting the discussion. I think money is too often treated as a taboo by creatives, whereas financial security and stability is probably one of the most important foundations upon which to build a creative life. I’ve been close to bankruptcy once, and once was quite enough, thank you. It’s virtually impossible to think creatively when you’re staring at a financial black hole. There ain’t no dignity in poverty.
Big thanks to you both.
I listened to that podcast three times today and heard new insights each time. I am still a nervous ostrich when it comes to money, but consciously working on such a silly response. I do see managing, growing & risking money as a very creative part of the whole indie life, but just like Orna describes, I have a million dangling money related emotions and schemas left over from times gone by, which block me even though they are largely irrelevant these days – and completely irrelevant to me specifically.
I think a lot of women suffer a kind of Cinderella complex when it comes to money – we are still waiting for money to pick us and ask for a dance – even tho’ we long ago abandoned such a passive princess stance in so many other parts of our lives! Thx for such a brilliant podcast. Really wonderful to step alongside such an interesting conversation.
Joanna Penn says
Thanks Dawn – I’m thrilled you found it useful 🙂