OLD POST ALERT! This is an older post and although you might find some useful tips, any technical or publishing information is likely to be out of date. Please click on Start Here on the menu bar above to find links to my most useful articles, videos and podcast. Thanks and happy writing! – Joanna Penn
A few weeks ago I talked about the editing and beta reader process in order to make your book the best it can be and now I have received my own feedback from all my beta readers on Prophecy, my next novel.
This is the hard part but it's critical because the more eyes you have on your manuscript before publication the better. They have to be the right eyes but you definitely need to improve the manuscript before it's published and you can't do it alone. I had several published authors as well as readers of my genre do a beta-read plus an expert on art history as I use a lot of this in the book. I've also had a structural edit for the whole book.
So I have a whole lot of constructive criticism to work through now and this bit is always difficult. But why is it so important?
You have to develop a thicker skin as an author because you will get criticism
If you're going to ‘ship' your work i.e. get it out the door and into the hands of readers, you have to take criticism. So it's better to catch as many issues as possible at the beta reader stage so that criticism you get later is because the wrong reader has read the book, rather than your plot has huge holes or grammatical issues.
Criticism in book reviews definitely hurts so it's good practice to get some before you make your work public.
I currently have 58 reviews of Pentecost on Amazon.com averaging 4 stars. 4 of those reviews are 1 star and 2 are because it's not Christian enough (and I never claimed it was!) I don't like those reviews but I have no influence on them, I can't do anything about that. I just have to take that criticism and try not to let it affect me. I counteract those comments with the 45 4 & 5 star reviews instead. We have to remember to focus on the positive and not just see the negative.
Taking feedback from beta-readers
Here's my post on the beta reader feedback for Pentecost. You can feel my depression! I'm happy that I have improved since last year and haven't repeated the same mistakes this time. The comments are still difficult to take but I know they will help the finished product. You know I like to share the hard parts as well as the triumphs, so here's my method for dealing with beta-reader feedback which can feel like criticism.
(1) Thank everyone sincerely for their help, offer to help them with anything and make sure you credit them in the book. This is a great service we all need as writers.
(2) Read through the notes everyone has sent and then let it settle. Do not react. Do not try to justify why you did whatever you did. Take the feedback without reaction.
(3) Bawl your eyes out, then self-medicate with chocolate and/or wine. You thought you were finished but actually, you still have a way to go. You're probably sick of the book but you have to go through it again. Ouch. After you have drowned your sorrows, go to the gym and play a lot of really loud music. My tracks for getting over these feelings (and here I show my age and how uncool I am!): Tubthumping by Chumbawumba (I get knocked down, then I get up again…), It's my Life – Bon Jovi, Don't Stop Believing by the Glee cast (am I losing readers yet?!) , Hold On by Wilson Philips and other such classic feel good tunes!
(4) Re-read the feedback with a critical eye. Have the same things been said more than once? For example, two of my beta-readers pointed out that the first sentences of my chapters start the same way which becomes jarring. Great feedback and easy to fix. I'm taking that to heart. But only one of my readers said that the theme of eugenics on top of the rest of the plot was ‘too much'. The others all said it was a good extra layer so I'll be leaving that in. I had been having some doubts about my ending although most loved it. One of my beta readers had a suggestion that will also ease my own concerns so that will be changed. But overall, most of the comments will not take much to fix, this is not a complete rewrite for me (thankfully!) but it will add more depth and fix the issues that the readers found.
(5) Create your hit-list of what needs to be changed so you have a map of the rewrites. It's also good to have a list of everything even if you're not going to change it, so you can use it as a learning experience, so I collate everything into one document organized by scene.
**At this point, I'll add a comment on versions and backing up as some people still struggle with this. At the end of every day, I save my WIP into a new document with the date on it and I email it to myself on Gmail which stores documents and is easily searchable. I also save to my drafts folder and back up externally. Then when there is a first draft that is saved as Draft_Date and so on through the multiple drafts. I have Draft_BetaRead_Date which is the version I sent to the beta readers and I will have the other drafts right up until the end. I always date them so I can trace back changes. This might be a little over the top but be sure to keep your drafts in case your change your mind later and back up somewhere other than your home computer – just in case!
(6) Go through the book again making the changes that you've accepted need to be done. Some may be big and others may be small. All are important. This is basically your final draft so it needs to be right. BUT/ don't let this become an excuse for not finishing the book and releasing it to the public. You must ship your work if you want to be a professional writer. It's a risk but if you don't do it regularly, the ‘flinch' gets worse and you'll never publish (read about the flinch here).
(7) Re-read in print or a different format other than your screen, and then give it to the copy-editor for the final run. They will pick up any typos, grammar issues and final mistakes. Make those final changes and you're finished. Yes, you really are!
There will always be more you can edit but you need to stop somewhere.
That's why deadlines are critical for perfectionist writers. I always planned on getting Prophecy out in 2011. It might be Dec 31st but I will have it out in ebook format and working back from that deadline has driven all my work.
How do you deal with beta reader feedback and criticism? Curl up and die or hack away and make those changes? How do you know what to change and what is your own voice and not for negotiation?
Gregory Lynn says
Being a person who is, perhaps, overly amused by silly people saying silly things I went to read the reviews that said it wasn’t Christian enough.
One of them contained this line, “This book alludes that God might need to imbibe rocks with the power of his Holy Spirit in order to change the course of human events.”
I am now in possession of an image in my head of a vaguely Moses-like figure sitting in a beach chair on a beach accompanied by an amorphous glowing blob both of whom are drinking a nice tall glass of rocks.
Joanna Penn says
I love reviews! I’m glad you enjoyed that one 🙂
Atiya Townes says
How much feedback should you consider if you’re just starting out? I’m in that exact position right now with the book I’m creating. I’m also trying to bang out a few short stories at the same time. I feel that by doing so will eventually leave me open for too much criticism.
Do you think it would be better to focus on just one short at a time and do a few chapters for edits, or breeze through the shorts just to show my development?
Joanna Penn says
Getting feedback on short stories is different to feedback on a book, and possibly even different editors might help. I personally think you only get an edit or beta read once you’re happy with everything, although if you want to pay for someone professional to go through it, that might be useful at an earlier stage. However, I really think that we often find ourselves circling back and improving the writing only once it’s finished, so if you submit too early, you haven’t got the whole picture. Showing your development seems unnecessary to me – your finished work is your development. But as always, that’s just my opinion!
Shah Wharton says
Another really useful post – thanks. I’m still working on the draft for my beta readers. I fortunately have a a few people willing to read for me – I really need to set a deadline. I’ve been writing this first book for almost two years now – and it’s largely due to the editing addiction! I completed my first nano within the month however, so I know its possible if I just restrict the revisions till the arc is down. I’m learning as I go. 😀 X
Joanna Penn says
Yes, editing can go on forever but it’s important to remember to ship, as Seth Godin puts it. You have to get the work out the door sometime. Definitely set a deadline and work to that. Even if you miss slightly, you’ll still make it sooner than if you don’t set one! I really believe that when we make space for the next story, it will come through, so you have to clear the decks by getting this one out the door!
Gary A Swaby says
Mmm…Chocolate sounds good to me right now.
Joanna Penn says
Chocolate is always good…
Tanner Christensen says
Thanks for sharing a peek into your process Joanna, it’s very insightful.
One thing I want to highlight is the notion that critiques should be welcome at all stages of writing. That’s a fallacy. You can’t write your best work if you’re also being critical of it. So take the time, as a writer, to do the work required and come up with something you feel is at a “ready” stage, then pass it off for review. Remember that you WILL get negative responses, but those are there to help you improve, not to rip you apart.
It’s hard, but if writers follow your outline I think they’ll be alright (especially when it comes to the wine and chocolate part).
Joanna Penn says
Thanks Tanner, I agree. One should only submit a book/ some writing for criticism when you are happy with it yourself and you’re ready to take feedback. I don’t do it until I have the whole book ready as an end to end read and I have redrafted as much as I can myself.
Margaret McGriff says
Great advice in here Joanna! A few weeks ago, I received feedback on the third draft of my novel and it was very hard to take at first. It is a great thing to read it once and then go have your pity party. Mine lasted about a week but after that I went back and dove right in. I think we all have to remember that it’s okay to be upset about critiques. We just have to feel them, work through them, have some chocolate (or cheesecake!), and get right back to work. In the end, it will only make our books even better.
Joanna Penn says
I feel for you Margaret and I have some serious rework to do. I think I have only managed 30 pages today. Ouch. But still, everything makes it better and we’ll be happier in the long run. I think we need to keep learning with every book too so there will always be marks on the edited page!
Dave Cornford says
My first book was a short story collection. Each of the stories had been out to beta readers and I listened to the feedback and suggestions for improvement with a degree of excitement. I even surveyed the beta readers, although with mixed success (read about that here: http://blog.taleist.com/2011/10/13/how-to-survey-your-readers/)
What I wasn’t prepared for was the onslaught that came back from the editor I engaged. The whole manuscript with red pen all over it. I was fine with the fact that there are two verbs I am pathologially incapable of conjugating, and that my reasonable spelling is not up to publishing standard. But there was so much else. “This story doesn’t fit in this collection”, “This ending is weak and undersells the first half”, “Readers won’t get this character”. It went on. And on.
After my “Day of Chocolate”, the message behind all the red pen came through – the book wasn’t ready to be published, but could be. In fact, the editor was confident it would be – he actually liked it. I just had to do the work. Each story’s revision went onto my kanban board, and off I went. With varying degrees of surgery, the three stories that were on life support were resurrected, and the others polished over and over again.
I haven’t had to endure any “constructive” reviews in the public domain yet, but as the book bubbles up reviewers’ “to read” lists, that might come. Stocked up with champagne and chocolate to cover all eventualities.
Joanna Penn says
That’s great Dave and well done you for facing up to the red pen. I am doing this now as well since I have a full copy edit as well as beta reader feedback to work through. I don’t have a single paragraph without marks and in some places there’s not even a line that was left untouched! But that’s why we use professionals – to help us shape our book into something more polished. It’s impossible to get to that level alone. I am confident that my book will emerge, like yours, much better for the editing! I’ll join you for the bubbles & choc!
Hiroko says
I’m actually about to go into the rewrite process myself, so thanks for the tips. 😀 Just thinking about going through my book again is daunting, but I really want to cut through it and make it better to be critiqued again.
Joanna Penn says
It’s definitely daunting Hiroko. Make sure you’ve had a break before you tackle the big edits. I had almost 3 weeks while my beta readers read the book without reading it again. That helps to get some perspective. Try to enjoy the polishing process!
Jesse says
Another great post Joanna. I agree that criticism is tough because it can feel so personal. The trick lies in not giving up. Another trick is knowing whose advice you can afford to ignore — and whose advice you must heed.
I was once told that I cannot write and that my English is beyond help (that was 2005). It did not crush me. It made me a better writer and drove me to be better at English!
Joanna Penn says
oh Jesse – that is terrible! That person was not a good critique partner 🙁 I’m so glad you didn’t listen. I spent many years believing I wasn’t creative because of a comment I had at 15 from my Dad about a piece of pottery that wasn’t great to be honest – but I didn’t bounce back from that for 15 years! I have found my kind of creativity now in writing but any kind of criticism can hurt us a lot.
Julie Hedlund says
Probably the best post I’ve ever seen on criticism and how to take it. Thanks! Off to share on Twitter!
Nancy M. Popovich says
I enjoyed the honesty and the content of this post. As a relative newcomer to independent publishing, this is the kind of practical knowledge that is worthwhile to me. I now have beta readers, and you’re right, sometimes it’s like someone is criticizing your child (which basically they are). I am an artist and habitually put the project on my fireplace mantle for a week before I ruin it by overworking and the same I think, goes for most creative works. Well done!
Joanna Penn says
I’m glad you like the honesty Nancy. It’s my intent to be ‘warts and all’ on this blog. There’s too much smoke & mirrors in the publishing industry and I think we all benefit by sharing just a bit more. I hope your beta readers are useful!
K.C. Woolf says
Thank you for this post, Joanna!
My favourite post-criticism song: Elton John’s “I’m still standing.” It works even better with the video clip! 😉
Joanna Penn says
“Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!”
Linda Adams says
The “let it settle” is very important. Once I got scathing comments from a romance writer (I’m thriller). I set it aside for about a week, came back to it, and had the new perspective of seeing the problem: She did not like the book and did not understand why. So she justified it by picking it apart instead of bowing out. We later discovered she was vehemently anti-gun. Not a good beta for a thriller set during the Civil War. She stopped reading at the point the main character pulled a gun.
I usually don’t have trouble with critiques. The hardest one — and one of the reasons I haven’t asked for any sense — is when I posted my first chapter. I’m writing in omni, which I noted mainly so people wouldn’t declare that I was head hopping. Instead, I had ten writers attack me because I’d evidently broken one of their rules — I’d used omni. Though I told them my reasons for using it — it wasn’t like I just thought, “I want to show what all the characters are thinking” — everyone stayed to message. I even had one guy tell me, “I know you know your story, but here’s how you would do it in third.” Head bang. Not one person actually commented on the writing. I’d have been fine is someone had said the omni isn’t working, but they were focused on making sure I never used it. The hardest thing was thanking them and walking away. The critique ended up being a complete waste of time.
Michelle O'Neil says
I’m a big fan of number #3.
Once, I thought I was done with my memoir, and a Beta reader said, “I think you have something to work with here.”
As if I was just getting started.
Hurt like hell, but he was right.
Joanna Penn says
Hurting that helps is a good thing 🙂
Dave says
I still have the same negative, knee jerk reaction to my first read-through of critiques, but it gets easier with every book. I always learn something from them and can’t deny that the book is better afterward. The hardest part for me, though it too is getting easier, comes when I choose not to take someone’s feedback. I wonder if they’re going to read the finished version and think, “Hmmph! See if I ever critique him again.” I find, though, that I make 90%-95% of suggested changes.
As a person giving feedback, I probably don’t do a good enough job calling attention to what I like in a writer’s manuscript. I tend to critique that way because I find that criticism, not praise, is what helps me grow. Also, I assume that anything not commented on is good, thus there’s no need to comment on it, so I critique the same way.
Joanna Penn says
Hi Dave, I think you do a great job of giving feedback 🙂 Criticism does help writers grow and it is so important. Perhaps the absence of comments on certain parts means they should stay! I do think it’s important to get multiple reviewers though as I react far more evenly when more than one person says the same thing. Those things get changed immediately. But we also need to feel as writers that we are confident enough in our story to hold to the parts that we want to keep for the integrity of the story we want to tell (does that make sense!)
LKWatts says
Hi Joanna,
Criticism is brilliant so long as it’s constructive. Personal attacks that are disguised as ‘criticism’ are just plain nasty. Unfortunately for writers there are just too many people out there who love to pull other people down. When you come across such people you have to maintain your professional attitude: simply ignore them and move forwards.
Hiring a professional copy editor is an excellent opportunity to learn how to handle criticism. The copy editors will hopefully be nothing other than professional and I think it helps you to recognise the difference between positive and negative criticism. Therefore should you ever get a spiteful review, you’ll be able to recognise it for what it is and shake it off.
I wish you every success with your second book.
Joanna Penn says
Thanks LK and yes, I am talking about professional critique, generally paid for or solicited – although those 1 star reviews do hurt! I like to think there is review karma as well. If I don’t like a book, I generally don’t make it all the way through and I don’t write bad reviews. I only review books I like – 3 star and over 🙂 Maybe if everyone did the same, the online world would be a nicer place!
Phil South says
Great post Joanna, I think the only thing on my mind when I’m giving my work to people is to be sure I’m ready to give it to someone. It’s easy when you’re excited about finishing a first draft to give your book to readers too early but you have to resist. They WILL get hung up on piffling little details, drive you crazy with them and ignore the wider view. People can’t imagine it finished like we do. Pick your readers carefully too. Non-writers are best, because they will read it and give you helpful feedback. Fellow writers will use the opportunity to showcase their own skills. My best readers are school teachers. They love cruising through reams of text and they are totally at home with a red pen in their hand.
Joanna Penn says
My ‘first’ reader and editor is a teacher of many years – my pages are slashed to bits with red pen afterwards! You definitely need the book to be the best you can make it before you give it to betas. They deserve that and as you say, you don’t want them nit-picking, more responding to the book as a whole.
LA Dale says
I have a few one star reviews but funnily enough the people who have left them all have very strong reactions because the stories didnt pan out the way they thought they should or the characters didnt do what they should. I don’t mind this at all – I don’t like every book I read ( it wouldn’t make me post a 1 star review though). We each have our own opinion. What would upset me was if the reviewer said the plot was pathetic or the grammar bad or writing poor. That would mean I hadn’t done the best I could do. As for my Beta Readers – I open their emails with trepidation – but I LOVE their feedback. They always help to make my books so much better and come up with brilliant ideas – some of which I use!
Joanna Penn says
John Locke mentions that his first books got more 1 stars as people tried them and then the reviews got better as his audience found him, so the book was being read by the ‘right’ people. I like that thought! I don’t think a few 1 star reviews hurt in a mass of 4 & 5 stars because it makes them look real.
Daniel says
I might be a freak, but fresh off a critique I actually feel pumped and ready to edit.
Joanna Penn says
That’s a healthy psyche you have there 🙂 I shall aim to be as accepting!
LKWatts says
I don’t leave too many reviews but when I do, if it’s a book I’ve not liked, I will say so but I will say so in a fair manner, suggesting points to improve it. I will never, ever slate the book and its author just because the book wasn’t my cup of tea. I always try to write balanced reviews – that’s always my aim :). And yes, if the world was full of people like us then it would definitely be a better place.